Stremmenos: "cold fusion will solve..."

Stremmenos: "cold fusion will solve many problems of humanity"

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http://radio.rcdc.it/archives/stremmenos-la-fusione-fredda-puo-risolvere-molti-problemi-dellumanita-77206 (ITA)
Courtesy of Ventidue passi d’amore e dintorni | Translation credits: Alex Passi, Vanesio

Professor Christos Stremmenos is the man who brought cold fusion to Greece, and worked with the Greek government to set up the factory that will manufacture the "Energy Catalyzer" reactors which Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi invented and tested, and which will produce a 1-megawatt power plant.

In the 1950s Christos Stremmenos came from Greece to Bologna. He married there and taught at the University until his retirement. 

Because of opposition to the Greek Military Junta, which came to power in the late Sixties in his home country, he became closely associated with Anti-Fascist circles; in particular he formed a lasting friendship with PASOK [the Greek Socialist Party] founder Andreas Papandreou and with his son George Papandreou, current Prime Minister of Greece. In the Eighties he was also Ambassador to Italy for Greece.  He has been interested in cold fusion since the first experiments by Fleischmann and Pons, and has attempted to replicate the two chemists' experiments. His studies brought him into close contact with Sergio Focardi; the two have worked together on cold fusion research using, in particular, nickel powder instead of palladium.

In the first part of the interview, Stremmenos traces back the history of his scientific studies at the University of Bologna (in the "bunker" laboratory of the Physics Department) up to the latest developments of Focardi's studies, which came about thanks to the innovations made by Dr. Rossi: "we have many ideas” - claims Stremmenos - “and there still is a long way to go, but this is a road that may lead to incredible developments".

In the second part of the interview Professor Stremmenos focuses on recent events. He tells of his mediation with the Greek government to make an industrial plant possible. For this purpose, Defkalion Green Technology was formed, a business venture of which he is vice-chairman — on "honorary terms", he says. His harsh criticism of those who, within the scientific community, refuse to give the new discovery due consideration, goes side by side with his enthusiasm for the discovery of a new technology which he calls "revolutionary" and capable of solving mankind's energy problems, Christos Stremmenos declares: "Skeptics shall be defeated by the market — though this discovery is not meant to serve capitalists, but mankind". The date is set, he says, for the October opening of the first cold fusion power plant, in Greece.

On March, Greek economy newspaper "Express" reported":

2011-03-16: "A 200 million euro investment is about to arrive in Xanthi (a city in northern Greece) for the startup of an industrial unit for the production of devices for low cost thermal and electric energy generation. The Greek business Defkalion Green Technologies, which will invest for the mass production and worldwide distribution of Hyperion devices, secured all rights of the scientific discovery of two Italian scientists (with a holding company) who claim to have invented a cold Nickel and Hydrogen cold fusion reactor which generates an amount of heat vastly greater than what the reactor needs to start up. Defkalion Green Technologies has not only secured all rights for the economic exploitation of the two Italian professors' invention, but also managed to made it an industrial product, in order to turn over not the energy situation of our country, but also at an international level.
(http://www.express.gr/news/business/434458oz_20110316434458.php3).

...and this of course led us to think that Fleischmann and Pons had really discovered something very important, because by moving just a micron away from these … one would find either palladium alone … or palladium oxide. And there was no palladium oxide, on the previous day the palladium had been shiny and bright.


[Interviewer] So this implies that there had been a...

...a transmutation! These were transmutations induced by a process which … anyway, this happened after twenty days. 

Together with [Gian Paolo] Cammarota [Head of the Unit for Chemical, Radiochemical and Metallurgic Sciences of the University of Bologna] we decided to subject our new specimen to a sort of deformation, like the one jewelers do when they pass through a … so as to slightly deform the lattice. We followed the same protocol of the [Fleischmann & Pons] experiment, but this time, by creating a defective structure in the palladium, the same phenomena happened after five days, with the same characteristics, the same, so as to say, quantity of elements formed in the very same areas, and so on.

The first thing which comes to mind is that the defective structure is the better suited one, so I immediately thought of running an experiment with an extremely deformed structure, i.e. palladium powder, and since we had to get our palladium from the England, I said, well, why can’t we use some other, less expensive element — there wasn’t all that much money — let’s try out nickel.

At the same time I had the chance of reading something which Focardi had published in Nuovo Cimento, so, as colleagues in the same University,

In Bologna!

...... in Bologna of course — we began exchanging ideas, information, etc. and so worked in parallel, until I retired. 

There’s a very important fact regarding [nickel] powder. The last student who got his degree with me, (incidentally, he was Greek), made a very interesting observation regarding nickel powder. Nickel powders alone do not absorb all that much hydrogen. If you put them there … in a cell, of course — we had a sophisticated calorimetry cell where we measured variations in temperature and in the quantity of heat produced in a very rigorous manner — we found that, at best, we could get one, two or three Watts, and so did Sergio Focardi. Focardi however — as a professor of Nuclear Physics — was also interested in studying nuclear parameters ... and structure modifications as well … in short, we were complementary to each other.

Anyhow, this is very important, because I observed it and then told Sergio. If we degassed (nickel powder, at this point) at an extremely low pressure, i.e.. 10^-6, which is one-millionth of atmospheric pressure, for one week at a temperature of 500° [Celsius], so that all the oxides on the surface of the micro-particles of nickel were eliminated (this means all of the oxides that have formed, because we are surrounded by an oxygen atmosphere) ... well, upon charging it, it sucked up, how can I put it, an enormous quantity of hydrogen (I was using hydrogen). And the temperature, which had been 500°, began to rise considerably, and got higher and higher, over the 1000° mark. I got scared, and shut everything down [laughs], because, I said to myself, “This is going to blow up”!

The temperature went up very fast. Probably there was chemical reaction too ... specifically, hydrides were being formed, which are... I didn’t have the patience to wait until it reached a steady level, but the previous experiments which … as far as exothermic emission from nickel is concerned … this excess [of heat] went on even for six months, so it did … but it wasn’t absorbing all that much hydrogen ... so I understood that the trick was purifying the nickel as much as possible...

So, nickel powder. You spoke of degassing, taking the oxygen out...

Talking out all the gases it absorbs … plus the oxides formed on the surface of the nickel micro-particles.

And how do you do proceed to do this with nickel powder?

By heating it. Heating it up to around 500° and lowering the pressure — I was way ahead there — to 10^-6 , which is to say one-millionth of an atmosphere. Anyhow, maybe even a little bit would have been enough, and of course you had to leave the specimen there for several days and then …

Professor, excuse me if I interrupt you, but what you were just telling me is very similar to what Dr. Rossi said on the 14th when he spoke about the temperature inside the “energy catalyzer” ... he said it was about 400, 500 degrees...

Yes. Now, Rossi’s great contribution was activating the system through this catalyzer … going from Watts to Kilowatts, and he’s keeping it a secret, he’s absolutely right. 

The famous secret ingredient Rossi mentioned in his presentation...

It’s OK. He’s absolutely right to hold on to it, and, of course, as soon as he’s settled all the issues, patent, and so on, it will be in the public domain — at least at the scientific domain level.

And we have even more ideas which should be [developed] as far as research is concerned: how to excite the system by other, not just chemical, means, (for a catalyzer has a chemical action). Exciting the system by other chemical and physical means, improving it, making it a little more flexible, so that in the future … who knows, in a few years … it may be used for cars, jet planes, etc. In short, the road is still long.

The road is long...

The road is long ... but what a fantastic road!

So, Professor, coming to recent times, we are looking at an event which was presented in Bologna, but now has its heart in Greece, and regarding this event Dr. Rossi said that a plant is being set up in a Greek city. He mentioned the name of a firm, Defkalion, I believe it’s called...

I am the Vice-President [laughs].

...you are the Vice-President, right. Now, we are speaking about a real industrial plant, we’re no longer dealing with experimentation...

No, no, we’re dealing with an industrial plant which we are preparing in a very precise and rigorous manner. But allow me, right now, not to focus our discussion on these aspects. The time will come, in October this will certainly come to the fore, but in the most serious of terms...

I just wanted to ask you something like this, seeing that you also have a past experience as a diplomatic representative in Italy; so, as to your specific role. You were active with the Greek Government to further the experimentation of this plant. … What is your role?

I understand your question, Doctor [laughs]. This thing, well it’s like with old loves. When I retired, I wanted to set up my own lab and quietly continue my research. But I did inform George Papandreou, the current Prime Minister, who at the time was President of PASOK. In the Convention which elected him, there were these commissions working on various aspects of the Greek economy. These were supposed to lay down the most favoured Party’s platform for government. So I told him, “George, look” — I explained — “I’m still working on this”. So at the Convention he says: “You know, I believe in this thing too, but who knows when it will come about” “I don’t know”, I said, “ truth and fate we haven’t got, but we must support and pursue this line”.

This is why, George Papandreou … Focardi phoned me a couple of years ago: “Listen Christos, the quality leap has come. Rossi has found a way to …” “But did you measure the ...?” “Yes, I took the measurements myself and I have seen the input energy amplified 200 times, and that’s not all...”. I didn’t know Rossi at the time, because he was in the US. “That’s not all”, he said, “I am witness to the fact that Eon, over there near Ferrara, what’s the place called...

Bondeno...

... in Bondeno, Eon has heated up this large warehouse of Rossi’s, I don’t know how many square or cubic metres...”

I didn’t believe it either. So I said, “Sergio, are you sure?”. “Of course,”, he says, “are you doubting me?”, “I don’t doubt you one bit, but to go from Watts to Kilowatts, that’s a miracle. This person, this engineer, he’s good. I want to meet him”. When Rossi came here … no, before he came, I sent him an email: “My friends’ friends are my friends as well. When you come, I want to meet you. We want to talk at the scientific level, and I have a proposition as well: I’d like to follow this thing up in Greece too, because right now there are serious economic problems in my country”. He answered right away. Rossi has always been very polite, very open-minded. He said he didn’t have any commitments for Greece at the time.

So this could be very important for a country like Greece, which lately has had very big economic problems, social tensions … it could also be an important development ...

That's right, we will see this later. With extreme caution, we need to do things right. It applies not only to Greece ... this thing is for the whole planet, if developed properly, so as not to succumb through the marketing of the oil companies and all the others.

With other forms of renewable, alternative energy, I believe that there can be a fairly constructive coexistence. It is clear that the problem is that we must eliminate carbon dioxide from this planet. Climate change is not an opinion, not a scientific verdict, it is a reality that we live day by day, so we have to work on it. As for the question why both Rossi and Focardi have convinced themselves that Greece is a suitable country: it’s because we do not have primary energy sources outside of hydropower. And lignite of course, but there isn’t a more polluting fuel than that ...

But Greece has lots of nickel ...

That's right, it has nickel, and the president of the Nickel company was my student in Bologna, Sakis Mparakos... I told him: "look, I failed you in Physics once, now try not to fail a second time. You have to stay on this matter with your ears and eyes open, because it could be very important”.

In short, considering the climate, the mindset of the present government in Greece …let me tell you, even the opposition has now asked to be informed on this issue, too. Therefore in Greece this matter is treated without prejudice, no one is uncommitted. Here, Rossi is right, there is not much one can do about it: scientific interests are very conflictual, and are often "servants." ... you understand me ... and therefore it will be the market who ... Can the market evaluate it scientifically? No, but ...

Professor, you are talking to a layman, and so are our radio listeners. But I wanted to ask you one thing, and somehow you already touched on it. The scientific community is extremely skeptical with regard to these studies but also with regard to the demonstration presented on and after January 14. Most recently the skepticism has diminished slightly, because there are other scholars who have become interested ... why all the skepticism?

Ok. The dividing line between the skeptics and those in favor is that those in favor have worked, have focused on experimental or theoretical aspects, while the skeptics are just pontificating. Pontificating without engaging, without seeing the experimental reality of this system, and of cold fusion in general. Pontificating in an arrogant way: they do not have the humility to recognize that. Moreover, physics and chemistry are experimental sciences,  this must be emphasized.

It is not the model which prevails - the model follows, being the product of our brain – what prevails is the experimental evidence, that is what counts. Otherwise, science would still be at the neanderthalensis level!” [Laughs]

But some scientists, not prejudiced skeptics, say, 'Sure, we have seen some things, although – with all these restrictions in place for economic, production and market reasons – we are not free to look inside the Energy Catalyzer, and we may not get to know these additive substances Rossi is talking about ... and thus we cannot see, we have no way to know. "

These are excuses! If Rossi were to open it, they would find dust! Therefore, the point is to consider all possible approaches in order to understand (1) how the Coulomb barrier, i.e. the repulsion between protons and nuclei, can be overcome, and (2) why, on the basis of that mechanism, or perhaps even a different nuclear mechanism, no [radiation] is being generated.

But this is their job. Instead of pontificating so they can show off, it would be better to collaborate with those who have worked, to exchange ideas for the good of man. Science has, by the way, this goal: to help man, not the capitalists - because you have understood that I am on the socialist side … Look, I live in a society ... but confronted with the value of Man ... And Man has two needs: one is food and the other to move, to use energy. If we can decentralize this topic of energy we have solved 50% of the existential problems of a society. Thank you Doctor, I think we have said everything! [Laughs].

I will ask you one last question, since we are on slightly political subjects. We talked a lot about science, and about complex issues. Surely, a discovery like this and especially its industrial mass application, once widespread, would have revolutionary effects on energy production, to such an extent that...

It would create imbalances ...

... current wars are fought for energy, in short, whether it’s oil or...

For 50% of the needs of humanity. The other 50% is food!

Food, of course. But with energy these days, if we look at the disasters of wars and disasters of nuclear power plants - see Japan - we have several problems.

Well, the international political classes must come to terms with this: as Science did not stop with the Inquisition ... of Galileo, right, scientific  evolution  cannot be stopped now. It is good that they begin to breach this subject - from their point of view, which I do not share - but the evolution of science cannot be stopped. This is – let’s call it a teleological principle - of human process and progress, and at this point humanity is in a crisis because of the difficulties that the overall political systems create in these sectors: 50% over food, and 50% over energy.

If this is approached in a gradual fashion, is not necessary to "slaughter" in order to accept scientific innovation. Biotechnology has made very important leaps for human health, and we must give due contribution to scientific evolution in the area of energy.

It is not a sin, I understand that not everybody agrees with me, but this is inevitable: you cannot block the development of science, of human knowledge. I, hoping to still have some of my old ancestral genomes, follow two things. One, by Socrates:  Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα  ("I know one thing, that I know nothing"). And another by Aristotle, who said: Φύσει τοῦ εἰδέναι ὀρέγεται ἄνθρωπος (by nature, man has the vocation to knowledge). So it is within us, in fact this is where we differ from the animal world. [Laughs]

So let us meet again in October in Greece.

Let us meet in Greece — indeed I will be very, very happy to chat again on that occasion!